the other thing you think about, look, you may be comfortable with the nsa surveilling america under a president you like, but are you going to be comfortable with it under a president or politician that you don't like? what about when your mayor gets access to this or your police department gets access to this? these are the kinds of questions that are legitimate. >> james, i think we're going to see that. we see that in different jurisdictions where people have very different relationships necessarily to who the executive is. do you think we'll see a change if and when president obama were to leave office? >> we might, but i think at the core here is that there's no data that suggests that stop and frisk reduces crime. there's other things, community policing, different demographic patterns or different things that factor into that. that's the same thing about the nsa and war on terror. if we want to prosecute the war on terror, we have to change foreign policy and stop making this clumsy violent interventions we make around the world. there's long form harder work that has to be d